IC Interview 9/25/97: IC Interview with Gennady Zyuganov

Reconstructing the Communist Party
IC Interview with Gennady Zyuganov
September 25, 1997

Gennady Zyuganov

Gennady Zyuganov is the leader of the Communist Party of Russia and lost out to President Boris Yeltsin in last year's elections in a close run-off. He remains an outspoken critic of Yeltsin and active in politics. He is expected to run again in 2001 for the presidency as the Communist Party's candidate. (The election is now on 26th March 2000 (the ed.)) Zyuganov and IC editor Pete du Pont discussed the challenges the Communist Party faces in the new Russia last week.

IC: It seems to me, Mr. Zyuganov, that your Communist Party faces a very difficult task in Russia of persuading the citizens that the new market economy is not as good as the old socialist economy was.

GZ: There's no such task that the Communist Party has set itself in this regard. The task we have set ourselves is to insure continuity of the historical process so that at this point we embrace all the good things in terms of culture and ideology, that this nation has amassed over centuries.
One of the reasons for the downfall of the Soviet Union, the downfall of the Communist Party, is that we had monopoly property ownership in this country. Number two, we failed to take into account the scientific and technological revolution, and the revolution in the data processing and transmission technology that started occurring in the 1950s and 60s is something we neglected to take due account of. We are partisans of a reasonable combination between private enterprise and government-regulated economies, something which we believe is a universal trend, observable in the most advanced countries.

IC: What fault do you primarily find with the Yeltsin administration in their combination of government and market economy?

GZ: In the Soviet period government property ownership accounted for as much as 96%. At this point in time, it stands at roughly 17%. For a fact, Mr. Yeltsin has restored the type of economy the United States had on the eve of the Great Depression, in 1927. What this group has done, it has deregulated the economy, but it has not provided a legal or organizational support for the functioning of the new economy.

IC: Indeed, the complaint of so many Western investors who would like to come to Russia and invest in your economy, is that the tax system is faulty, that the legal system needed to support the investment is not in place, and that the regulatory mechanisms are not spelled out well enough to give an investor confidence that their investment will be safe, and they have an opportunity to make a profit.

GZ: They also have ones related to personal safety, personal security, because of the corruption and violent crime in this country.
We are all for investment pouring into the backbone of the economy as it exists today, and into prospective industries, and for that purpose, we need to create the appropriate legal backing, the appropriate tax environment. Right now, we're looking into a new tax code, but will continue to address the matter from the standpoints just described.

IC: What kind of a tax code for Russia would you and your party favor?

GZ: We would favor a tax code that would make the tax burden lighter, that would favor producers coming as they would from whatever property ownership entity, we will favor a tax code that will provide incentives for increased production.

IC: Let me turn to a slightly different subject. I met, while here in Moscow, with Mr. Satarov, the presidential aide working on the common national ideal. And we listened to his description of the need for a new common goal, common ethic, for Russia.
Of course, for seventy years in the Communist era, the national ideal was the worldwide socialist revolution, and that mainly existed in service to the state. What do you think the idea should be that motivates Russian society now?

GZ: Not only am I politician, I am a scholar and a philosopher. And I taught philosophy at the university. It is my belief that national ideals cannot be generated by a group of experts, they are generated by people, they come out naturally. Central to our national ideal was, and is, its reliance on the people, its spirituality, its historical consistency, the idea of justice, but on these fundamental values, which are central to the Russian national ideal, there is no way out of the present crisis.

IC: How does your national ideal today differ from the Communist ideal of the 1930s and the 1950s?

GZ: Of course, the Communist Party, as it stands today, will differ substantially from that of the 1930s, because it's different times, it's different people. People who are more educated, more experienced, et cetera. Many Communists in the 1930s believed that their history began right after 1917. The Communist Party, as it stands today, believes Russia's history is over one thousand years old. Until recently, most Communists believed that there should be only one form of property ownership -- government owned or public owned, essentially the same thing -- while increasingly they are believing that there should be more reforms, that property law should be recognized by the Russian economy.
Today, Communists believe in good relations with both West and East. They believe that whatever differences there may be should be addressed by the democratic process of programs being submitted to the public for elections taking place. The Communist Party of the Soviet Union, in the old days, was not only a political party. It was a government system that permeated all layers of society, which was the case in the 30s, 40s, 50s and later. Today, the Communist Party, which, in terms of membership is twice as big as the next largest party, believes in the need for the existence of a multiparty system.
Another point of difference from the old Communist Party would be that the current Communist leaders have considerably greater knowledge and exposure to things international. They are well familiar with what's going on in the West, and its leader has invested his personal time and effort to study the specifics of the Japanese economy. He's been to China, to Shanghai; he's perfectly aware of what's going on in the United States, France, Germany, et cetera.

IC: If you were speaking to an elementary school class, how would you explain to them what happened in Russia in the Communist years? How would you explain why that system needed to be changed?

GZ: I would say that it's the natural flow of change. Everything changes and this is a normal process. We cannot enter the same river twice. Next time around, it's going to be a different river.
As far as school education, it's important that true history, rather than the one that's been conceived by historians, be known to school children. Some people today are too anxious to rewrite history. Among other things, the aspects related to the Soviet-American relationship, the interaction of the allies during World War II, which made it possible to stop Nazism, something that will go down in history as a great accomplishment.
Soviet history, as such, is not confined to repressing discontent in the 1930s. It is also the Russian successes in outer-space research, education and science, for those things are also part of the Soviets. To kids, I would say that they should never renege on their own history, they should not renege on their parents. They should study their history well, they should know their history well, and draw proper conclusions. I visited Gettysburg, and I noticed that you still have monuments to generals that represented both sides, and Washington has monuments to both the North and South generals, as part of history.

IC: So what is Yeltsin doing wrong that needs to be corrected?

GZ: He should stop drinking and start working. Yeltsin has not delivered on any of his promises made during the election campaign.

IC: Do you think that Chubais and Nemtsov's reform program is the right program for Russia?

GZ: No. Chubias and Nemtsov are continuing the policy that Yeltsin has pursued over six years. Resulting from that policy is the plummeting of the Russian industry; it is a shell of what it used to be. We did not experience this even at the heart of World War II when the Germans were at the gates of the city of Moscow.
What, in fact, it may lead to is the creation of oligarchy, whereby one financial industrial group in cahoots with the government will dictate the terms and conditions to the economy through the media. What is, in fact, happening is a sort of criminal authoritarian rule. What the government needs to do is to create proper conditions, to create proper ground rules that would make it infinitely more profitable to work, rather than drink and throw your weight around.
Chubais and Nemtsov will do very well if they brought some of Gerhardt's reforms, and others' reforms, of Germany. Rather than do that, what they are doing is selling this country down the drain. And, as a result, there's no money in the kitty to pay teachers, to pay army officers, to pay doctors, that being the case this country can only be termed bankrupt.
Peter Orlovy, well-known colonel in Russia, has come out with an article basically in which he describes the situation and what I believe very objective point. Of course, the Russian White House is unprepared to absorb, or embrace, that kind of interpretation of the activities pursued by Chubais and his company, the activities that are doomed. There's hardly anyone that has less confidence of the population than Chubais.

IC: You have studied abroad. You have traveled. From the perspective of a member of the Communist Party, what is going on in China's Communist Party?

GZ: China has embarked on market reforms in recent years -- market reforms that are socialist in nature, and Chinese in terms of the specifics. China has accomplished fantastic results, something that needs to be studied closer. It took the United States forty-seven years to double its GNP, essentially. It took thirty-three years for Japan, and only ten for China, a country of 1.2 billion people. With annual growth of 12%, something unknown to the rest of the world.
Of course, it's very good climate in China. It seems to be an attractive place for a foreign investor, with as many as 36 billion in place already. Or rather, in the year that Russia got two billion, China got thirty-six. More facts: China has become another superpower right next to the United States, and given itself the task by the year 2010 to again double its GNP.
We have excellent relations with the Chinese Communist Party. We recently signed an agreement, we have good relations with the leaders of the Communist Party in China, as well. We believe the experiences of their reforms should be studied in depth.

IC: Well, I very much appreciate those comments.

GZ: I wish you every success with your enterprise. We do believe that the Internet has turned the world into one huge village. It gives users unlimited opportunities; just spend a few hours every night, and you can travel wherever. You can see whatever. You can read any magazines, you can come closer to the culture, the ideology.
The Communist Party leadership has done some decision-making in that respect, and we intend to become very active users of the Internet.

IC: Well, thank you again.

Source: www.IntellectualCapital.com
IntellectualCapital.com is a service mark of A2S2 Digital Projects, Inc.
email:info@intellectualcapital.com

Russian presidential elections EURODOS Home page

Published 2000 by EURODOS, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

IC:	It seems to me, Mr. Zyuganov, that your Communist Party faces a very difficult task in Russia of persuading the citizens that the new market economy is not as good as the old socialist economy was.
GZ:	There's no such task that the Communist Party has set itself in this regard. The task we have set ourselves is to insure continuity of the historical process so that at this point we embrace all the good things in terms of culture and ideology, that this nation has amassed over centuries. One of the reasons for the downfall of the Soviet Union, the downfall of the Communist Party, is that we had monopoly property ownership in this country. Number two, we failed to take into account the scientific and technological revolution, and the revolution in the data processing and transmission technology that started occurring in the 1950s and 60s is something we neglected to take due account of. We are partisans of a reasonable combination between private enterprise and government-regulated economies, something which we believe is a universal trend, observable in the most advanced countries.
IC:	What fault do you primarily find with the Yeltsin administration in their combination of government and market economy?
GZ:	In the Soviet period government property ownership accounted for as much as 96%. At this point in time, it stands at roughly 17%. For a fact, Mr. Yeltsin has restored the type of economy the United States had on the eve of the Great Depression, in 1927. What this group has done, it has deregulated the economy, but it has not provided a legal or organizational support for the functioning of the new economy.
IC:	Indeed, the complaint of so many Western investors who would like to come to Russia and invest in your economy, is that the tax system is faulty, that the legal system needed to support the investment is not in place, and that the regulatory mechanisms are not spelled out well enough to give an investor confidence that their investment will be safe, and they have an opportunity to make a profit.
GZ:	They also have ones related to personal safety, personal security, because of the corruption and violent crime in this country. We are all for investment pouring into the backbone of the economy as it exists today, and into prospective industries, and for that purpose, we need to create the appropriate legal backing, the appropriate tax environment. Right now, we're looking into a new tax code, but will continue to address the matter from the standpoints just described.
IC:	What kind of a tax code for Russia would you and your party favor?
GZ:	We would favor a tax code that would make the tax burden lighter, that would favor producers coming as they would from whatever property ownership entity, we will favor a tax code that will provide incentives for increased production.
IC:	Let me turn to a slightly different subject. I met, while here in Moscow, with Mr. Satarov, the presidential aide working on the common national ideal. And we listened to his description of the need for a new common goal, common ethic, for Russia. Of course, for seventy years in the Communist era, the national ideal was the worldwide socialist revolution, and that mainly existed in service to the state. What do you think the idea should be that motivates Russian society now?
GZ:	Not only am I politician, I am a scholar and a philosopher. And I taught philosophy at the university. It is my belief that national ideals cannot be generated by a group of experts, they are generated by people, they come out naturally. Central to our national ideal was, and is, its reliance on the people, its spirituality, its historical consistency, the idea of justice, but on these fundamental values, which are central to the Russian national ideal, there is no way out of the present crisis.
IC:	How does your national ideal today differ from the Communist ideal of the 1930s and the 1950s?
GZ:	Of course, the Communist Party, as it stands today, will differ substantially from that of the 1930s, because it's different times, it's different people. People who are more educated, more experienced, et cetera. Many Communists in the 1930s believed that their history began right after 1917. The Communist Party, as it stands today, believes Russia's history is over one thousand years old. Until recently, most Communists believed that there should be only one form of property ownership -- government owned or public owned, essentially the same thing -- while increasingly they are believing that there should be more reforms, that property law should be recognized by the Russian economy. Today, Communists believe in good relations with both West and East. They believe that whatever differences there may be should be addressed by the democratic process of programs being submitted to the public for elections taking place. The Communist Party of the Soviet Union, in the old days, was not only a political party. It was a government system that permeated all layers of society, which was the case in the 30s, 40s, 50s and later. Today, the Communist Party, which, in terms of membership is twice as big as the next largest party, believes in the need for the existence of a multiparty system. Another point of difference from the old Communist Party would be that the current Communist leaders have considerably greater knowledge and exposure to things international. They are well familiar with what's going on in the West, and its leader has invested his personal time and effort to study the specifics of the Japanese economy. He's been to China, to Shanghai; he's perfectly aware of what's going on in the United States, France, Germany, et cetera.
IC:	If you were speaking to an elementary school class, how would you explain to them what happened in Russia in the Communist years? How would you explain why that system needed to be changed?
GZ:	I would say that it's the natural flow of change. Everything changes and this is a normal process. We cannot enter the same river twice. Next time around, it's going to be a different river. As far as school education, it's important that true history, rather than the one that's been conceived by historians, be known to school children. Some people today are too anxious to rewrite history. Among other things, the aspects related to the Soviet-American relationship, the interaction of the allies during World War II, which made it possible to stop Nazism, something that will go down in history as a great accomplishment. Soviet history, as such, is not confined to repressing discontent in the 1930s. It is also the Russian successes in outer-space research, education and science, for those things are also part of the Soviets. To kids, I would say that they should never renege on their own history, they should not renege on their parents. They should study their history well, they should know their history well, and draw proper conclusions. I visited Gettysburg, and I noticed that you still have monuments to generals that represented both sides, and Washington has monuments to both the North and South generals, as part of history.
IC:	So what is Yeltsin doing wrong that needs to be corrected?
GZ:	He should stop drinking and start working. Yeltsin has not delivered on any of his promises made during the election campaign.
IC:	Do you think that Chubais and Nemtsov's reform program is the right program for Russia?
GZ:	No. Chubias and Nemtsov are continuing the policy that Yeltsin has pursued over six years. Resulting from that policy is the plummeting of the Russian industry; it is a shell of what it used to be. We did not experience this even at the heart of World War II when the Germans were at the gates of the city of Moscow. What, in fact, it may lead to is the creation of oligarchy, whereby one financial industrial group in cahoots with the government will dictate the terms and conditions to the economy through the media. What is, in fact, happening is a sort of criminal authoritarian rule. What the government needs to do is to create proper conditions, to create proper ground rules that would make it infinitely more profitable to work, rather than drink and throw your weight around. Chubais and Nemtsov will do very well if they brought some of Gerhardt's reforms, and others' reforms, of Germany. Rather than do that, what they are doing is selling this country down the drain. And, as a result, there's no money in the kitty to pay teachers, to pay army officers, to pay doctors, that being the case this country can only be termed bankrupt. Peter Orlovy, well-known colonel in Russia, has come out with an article basically in which he describes the situation and what I believe very objective point. Of course, the Russian White House is unprepared to absorb, or embrace, that kind of interpretation of the activities pursued by Chubais and his company, the activities that are doomed. There's hardly anyone that has less confidence of the population than Chubais.
IC:	You have studied abroad. You have traveled. From the perspective of a member of the Communist Party, what is going on in China's Communist Party?
GZ:	China has embarked on market reforms in recent years -- market reforms that are socialist in nature, and Chinese in terms of the specifics. China has accomplished fantastic results, something that needs to be studied closer. It took the United States forty-seven years to double its GNP, essentially. It took thirty-three years for Japan, and only ten for China, a country of 1.2 billion people. With annual growth of 12%, something unknown to the rest of the world. Of course, it's very good climate in China. It seems to be an attractive place for a foreign investor, with as many as 36 billion in place already. Or rather, in the year that Russia got two billion, China got thirty-six. More facts: China has become another superpower right next to the United States, and given itself the task by the year 2010 to again double its GNP. We have excellent relations with the Chinese Communist Party. We recently signed an agreement, we have good relations with the leaders of the Communist Party in China, as well. We believe the experiences of their reforms should be studied in depth.
IC:	Well, I very much appreciate those comments.
GZ:	I wish you every success with your enterprise. We do believe that the Internet has turned the world into one huge village. It gives users unlimited opportunities; just spend a few hours every night, and you can travel wherever. You can see whatever. You can read any magazines, you can come closer to the culture, the ideology. The Communist Party leadership has done some decision-making in that respect, and we intend to become very active users of the Internet.
IC:	Well, thank you again.